PARK & RECREATION BOARD
MINUTES DECEMBER 12, 2006
The regular meeting of the Park & Recreation Board of
Park & Recreation Board: David Fritchey, Chairman
Henry Carpenter, Vice Chairman
David Gordon, Member
Richard Jutkiewicz, Member
Francis McDonald, Member
Andrew Newbon, Member
Others: Donna Liney, Recreation Director
Greg Caiola, Supervisor Liaison
Absent: Patricia Bunn, Park & Rec Secretary
APPROVAL OF NOVEMBER, 2006 MINUTES
Mr. McDonald moved, Mr. Newbon seconded and it was unanimously carried to amend
the Minutes as presented to include the following statement in the discussion of
Memorial Park: It is the understanding of the Park & Recreation Board that any
additions, changes, or modifications to the Memorial Park Master Plan would come
before the Park & Recreation Board prior to those changes being made.
Mr. Jutkiewicz moved, Mr. Gordon seconded and it was unanimously carried to approve
the Minutes as amended.
Mr. Ted Wallover and Mr. Greg Stoloski, Pool Manager, were present. Mr. Wallover
stated they have rehabilitated the restrooms, made modifications to the filtration and
heating plant, and added the water slides. The 2002 Study identified a number of items
that needed to be dealt with over the years. He stated the Park & Recreation Board needs
to decide where funds should be spent. He stated they could replace the tot pool and
update the intermediate pool to make the complex more compatible with what is being
done in the industry today. He stated they could consider water features, more interactive
play toys, and a small slide in the intermediate pool so it will attract more young families
December 12, 2006 Park & Recreation Board page 2 of 9
to use the facility. He stated they could also decide to do some infrastructure
improvements including work on the gutters, filters, etc. which are items that are behind
the scenes that the members do not actually see. He stated they have not seen any
indication of severe water loss problems so they could push some of the
recommendations that were done in the study in this regard out a little further. He stated
they may want to do something that would have an immediate impact of members being
able to see the improvements.
Mr. Wallover noted the increased costs in the industry for pool materials and stated if
they push certain maintenance items back, the costs will go up. He stated those in the
pool business are very busy at the current time. He stated costs of PVC, stainless, and
concrete have gone up significantly. He stated the numbers provided in 2002 are not
realistic at this time. Mr. Fritchey asked if they anticipate that over the next few years the
costs will go even higher; and Mr. Wallover stated they are seeing some leveling for PVC
but stainless and concrete are still increasing.
Mr. Wallover stated the comments made about the tot pool in the Study would still be
valid and upgrading that facility would help generate interest and maintain membership.
Mr. Fritchey stated it does not appear that they are at a crisis stage with regard to the pool
maintenance issues; and Mr. Wallover agreed, although he stated they should still
consider the 3-5-7 year plan in the Feasibility Study.
Mr. Carpenter asked if there would be an economic benefit to doing the gutters and filters
at the same time. Mr. Wallover stated whenever they package a project they are able to
get more bidders. He stated they will continue to see increases in the pool industry; and
while it will slow down, it will not get back down to the numbers they saw five years ago.
He stated one of the benefits of the Township facility is the amount of water surface, but
this also increases costs.
Mr. Newbon asked the turnover rate as to filtration, and Mr. Wallover stated they see four
to six in most large-scale facilities; but added you can stay at a six hour turn and still be
within legal limits for the large pools. For the tot pool and the intermediate pool, they do
it on a one or two hour turn. Mr. Newbon stated visually the pools do look very clean.
He asked if they looked at re-doing the gutter surface, what would be involved in redoing
the filtration system to accommodate more turns a day. Mr. Wallover stated piping
systems would be put in to meet future demand. He stated when you look at the existing
piping system, they can make the gutters meet the turn over, but they cannot necessarily
make the drains accommodate it. He stated with the water slide, they cut the drain grates
in the sidewalls so they could supplement the main drains. These would be design
decisions the Board would have to look at in terms of cost versus benefit.
December 12, 2006 Park & Recreation Board page 3 of 9
Mr. Newbon asked if the 2002 Study gave directives on what should be done in a
prioritized listing, and Mr. Wallover stated it does. He stated the tot pool was listed as a
high priority item. He stated the trend they are seeing today in most Municipal facilities
is less competition and more interactive facilities for the family.
Mr. Jutkiewicz asked if studies have been done on how many more people they could
accommodate. Mr. Wallover stated on Page 12 and 13 of the report they identified the
total patrons that could be accommodated based on water surface. He stated there is also
a formula used by the State to establish occupancy which takes into account the lawn
area, decking, etc. He stated when they considered the restroom renovations, they based
in on the average number of people at the Pool and not for the peak. Mr. Stoloski stated
on their busy days in the summer, they see a maximum of 2500 people through the gate.
On average they get 1500 to 1700 through the gate.
Ms. Liney asked Mr. Stoloski what he feels the patrons would be in favor of, and
Mr. Stoloski stated he does not feel most people would respond to gutter or filter upgrades. He stated he and Mr. Sharp had been looking at water loss for several years, but they have not seen any severe rises over the years. He stated in the past they have
re-patched the walls and resealed seams. They do add water regularly to maintain the height. He feels it would be better to have features that the members would enjoy provided they do not add so much that it disturbs people who are interested in general recreational swimming
Mr. Wallover stated the Township has an excellent facility but it is over twenty-five years old and twenty-five years is actually the average of most aquatic recreational facilities before they need to be renovated. He stated in the spring when they bring the pool up to level, they should begin to do some dye testing. He stated there are things that can be done to correct leaks.
Mr. Fritchey stated he feels it is the consensus of the Park & Recreation Board that they
proceed with the tot pool renovations. Mr. Wallover stated the study recommended
taking the tot pool out completely as it had the most amount of deterioration. He stated
they were looking at features such as beach access as well. He stated they would do filter
renovations for this pool and bring it out closer to the pool which would allow for more
room in the filter room. He stated they could also look into a slide for the intermediate
pool. He suggested that they go back and review the Study and put todays number in,
bid the project in 2007, construct the pool in the fall, and bring it back on line in 2008.
Mr. Gordon stated he feels the tot pool would be a good selling point for new members.
He stated he is not in favor of an intermediate pool sliding board. He stated he feels this
is a good pool for people to play with their children, and there are many beginning
swimmers in this pool. He stated it is a very active pool, and he feels a sliding board
would take away from what that pool is used for. Mr. Carpenter agreed. Mr. Wallover
December 12, 2006 Park & Recreation Board page 4 of 9
stated if the Board is not in favor of this, they would not do it. He stated there are things
they could do to the intermediate pool to help improve the water quality. He stated they
could present figures on this as well. He stated they were also proposing a spray area
where young children would not be in a standing water setting.
Mr. Carpenter asked if they should begin setting monies aside each year so that there is a
certain dollar amount that could be used in the future for maintenance issues. Ms. Liney
stated at this time they just carry a cash balance. She stated it is a Proprietary Budget.
Mr. Wallover agreed to go back and revisit the numbers from the original study and put
together priorities and a Budget based on the discussion this evening.
Mr. Stoloski stated he agrees that a slide would not be appropriate for the intermediate
pool. He stated it is their highest use pool and is one of their smaller spaces. He stated
he would also want to make sure that renovations to the tot pool are geared to smaller
children so that it does not attract older children which may result in complaints from
parents of smaller children.
Mr. Newbon stated it may be a good idea to review the demographics in the Township to
make sure that they are not providing features that are not necessary. Mr. Wallover
stated he feels this pool does get the most wear and tear. Ms. Liney noted the survey
came back with age groups and this demographic was high.
DISCUSSION AND MOTION ON PAA PROPOSAL TO MODIFY BASEBALL FIELD DIMENSIONS
Mr. Mark Cook, PAA Commissioner, and Mr. Greg Mauro, PAA Vice Commissioner,
were present. Mr. Mauro presented information this evening regarding changes to the
fields they are requesting. Included with the information was game field usage statistics
for 2006. There were 500 five to eight year olds playing on forty teams. They used
had 385 nine to twelve year olds. He stated all of the boys play intramural but some also
play travel. There were 31 intramural teams and 6 travel teams. They used Stoddard 1,
2, and 3 and Macclesfield B. Babe Ruth is for thirteen to eighteen year olds and this had
170 players in 12 intramural and 4 travel teams playing on Macclesfield A and H.
Mr. Mauro stated the Cal Ripken group is the group for which they need the field change.
He stated currently they use a 60 diamond. For 2007, the National Division has detailed
guidelines and rules; and they will need a 70 foot diamond with the mound at 50 feet.
Because of safety concerns, there is a need to make these changes. He stated last year
there was an age change as well so that the boys are now three months older than they
were previously. Mr. Mauro stated it is felt that these changes will help the players
have a smoother transition to Babe Ruth play which uses a larger field.
December 12, 2006 Park & Recreation Board page 5 of 9
Mr. Mauro noted in the hand-out the details as to how the fields would be converted to a
70 field. He stated it could also be converted quickly back to a 60 field. Mr. Mauro
stated if they proceed with this there would be two divisions playing 60 and the older
boys would be playing on the 70 field. Mr. Mauro stated they would propose modifying
Stoddard 2 for 70 play for the 2007 season.
Mr. Fritchey stated he does not feel the field lay out is well thought out. He stated at
Stoddard the fences are 192 and the rule of thumb how far the fences are is 3 ½ times the
base line. He stated for a 70 baseline, a proper field would need the fence to be at 245.
He stated he does not have a problem with the rest of the program. He stated he would
prefer that they use Macclesfield B and put up a plastic removable fence or swap a
Stoddard field with the girls and have one of these teams play on Oxford Valley/Roelofs
Field C because the fence there is at 220. Mr. Cook stated he did not feel this could be
done as those fields were built with Title 9 money; however, Mr. Fritchey stated he did
not feel this would be a problem.
Mr. Carpenter asked if this is a requirement or is it a suggestion, and Mr. Mauro stated it
is optional, but since they are one of the larger organizations and one of the groups that
want to move their players into a more competitive situation, they were interested in
proceeding with this. Mr. Carpenter stated there is a high drop out rate when the boys
reach twelve to thirteen as it requires going up to such a large field. Mr. Carpenter stated
he does not feel the balls will be going over the fence at Stoddard at this level of play,
and he feels this would be a good transitional step. Mr. Cook stated he feels it will be
safe. Mr. Newbon stated he feels it will be expected that PAA would be up to date with
the new recommendations.
Ms. Liney asked if this could be done at Macclesfield B, and Mr. Cook stated they
do not have a skinned in-field or concession stand at Macclesfield. Mr. Mauro stated they wanted to do it at Stoddard 2 because it is their premier field for the Major Division.
He stated they would use Afton Elementary as the secondary field at 50/70 even though
it is in rough shape, and there are limited facilities since there is not a portable toilet or
equipment shed. He stated the fence is a must for a Major Division. He stated if they
host a Tournament, it would be a requirement that they have a fence. He stated Stoddard
also has the scoreboard, and it is centrally located. It also has the concession stand with
the permanent restrooms.
Mr. Fritchey asked if the two 60 fields are sufficient, and Mr. Mauro stated he could run
the Minor and mid League Division off two fields and use the School fields for practices.
He stated the Majors run off Stoddard 2 and Macclesfield B. Mr. Fritchey asked why
they could not swap fields with the girls. Mr. Mauro stated he feels there would be a
backlash from the Softball Group, and Ms. Liney stated she has received calls about this
possibility already. Mr. Gordon stated he also feels the older boys are seen as role
models for the younger players.
December 12, 2006 Park & Recreation Board page 6 of 9
Ms. Liney stated she did get a price for fencing a 4 fence for 600 feet and it would cost
$9500 to fence in Macclesfield B. This would be a permanent fence. Mr. Mauro stated
long-term, they feel they will need two fields of this nature.
Mr. Caiola stated he feels there would be interference onto Macclesfield A with balls
going onto that field if they used Field B at Macclesfield. He agreed it makes sense to
have it on a skinned in-field. Mr. Mauro stated even though they would have the lights at
Macclesfield B, they would not normally need them because these are Fifth and Sixth
Graders and they do not usually keep them out too late. He stated Macclesfield B does
not have a concession stand or permanent restrooms. He stated he would like to keep the
Baseball Complex as the Center of the Cal Ripken activity.
Ms. Liney stated she feels her crew could do the work and she assumes PAA would work
with them and offer their support.
Mr. Carpenter stated he personally feels if PAA feels this is what they need to do for the
organization and it is not going to cost the Township any money, he feels they should
agree to it.
Mr. Carpenter moved, Mr. Gordon seconded and it was unanimously carried to approve
conversion of Stoddard 2 for 70 play for the 2007 baseball season as outlined by PAA.
SUPERVISOR LIAISONS REPORT
Mr. Caiola stated they anticipate voting on the Budget at their next Board meeting. There
will be no tax increase. He stated with regard to the Park & Recreation Budget, they did
get $250,000 a few weeks ago which will lower the increase from ½ mil to Ό mil so that
there will be no overall tax increase this year. Mr. Fritchey asked where the money came
from, and Mr. Caiola stated the $250,000 was the Five Mile Woods Grant. He stated
engineering money has been put in the Budget for some projects as well as money for the
lights and re-doing the tennis courts. They will proceed with the engineering for
Mr. Caiola noted the report from Schoor DePalma related to the discussions at the last
Park & Recreation Board meeting regarding Memorial Park, and they are looking for a
response from the Park & Recreation Board on this. He noted at the last meeting there
was a two to two vote on whether to shift the ball field, eliminate a soccer field, and
install the Arboretum. Mr. McDonald stated he does not feel a formal vote was taken on
this. Mr. Newbon asked if they should discuss this matter again now that they have the
report from Mr. Majewski. Ms. Liney stated at the last meeting the Park & Recreation
Board did recommend to the Board of Supervisors that they were in favor of exploring
the tweaking of the Memorial Park design to accommodate what has been recommended
December 12, 2006 Park & Recreation Board page 7 of 9
The Park Board also requested that the Township engineer look at this as quickly as
possible to see if it could be accommodated.
Mr. Fritchey stated according to Mr. Majewski, it will technically derail the project, and
Mr. Caiola agreed it will slow it down. Mr. Fritchey stated there is no money in the
Budget to proceed so the project will be slowed down anyway. Mr. Newbon asked if
they need to vote again given the information provided by Mr. Majewski. Mr. Fritchey
stated there is no money in the Budget to do Phase II in 2007. Mr. Gordon stated it
appears Schoor DePalma is still gathering information. Mr. McDonald stated he did not
have a problem with moving the softball field, but he did not want to lose a soccer field.
He stated he also wanted to make sure that no changes were made before they were
brought before the Park & Recreation Board. Mr. Newbon stated he is also concerned
with changing Plans that were approved of by people over the course of many meetings.
He stated he does not want the Park & Recreation Board to lose credibility.
Mr. McDonald stated he feels they need more information before they make any
recommendations. Mr. Gordon stated the Park & Recreation Board indicated to the
engineer that he should advise if they could make a minor shift provided it did not derail
the project. Mr. McDonald there was also discussion about the elimination of one of the
four soccer fields, and he feels there needs to be more discussion on this. Mr. Gordon
stated that was not in Phase II and the major concern at this time was the placement of the
softball field which was in Phase II; and they had wanted the Township engineer to make
recommendations. He stated it appears that he needs to get more information, and it does
not appear that Phase II will occur in 2007 anyway.
Mr. Caiola stated prior to doing any engineering, they need to determine if it makes sense
to move the arboretum and softball field. He stated while they have additional time,
they need to consider this prior to Budget time again.
Mr. McDonald stated there was discussion on the trees acting as a buffer, but they had
also wanted an arboretum going around the entire park with walking paths, benches, etc.
Mr. Fritchey stated there were always trees to be planted all around the Park along the
paths. He asked if they would have to go through the Land Development process again,
and Mr. Caiola stated they would probably have to go through portions of the process if
they are impacting wetlands. He stated the EAC is now a reviewing body, and he does
not feel they would react favorably on impacting the wetlands.
Mr. Gordon asked if they could have Mr. Majewski attend the next meeting in January to
discuss this. Mr. Fritchey stated he feels this would be appropriate but personally feels if
this change means they would have to go through the Land Development process again,
he would not be in favor of doing so.
December 12, 2006 Park & Recreation Board page 8 of 9
Mr. Carpenter stated that while he was not at the last meeting, he did review the Minutes
and he would have indicated that he would be willing to make accommodations, but if it
involved additional approvals and permitting that would add cost and time, he would not
be in favor of this. Mr. Newbon stated at that meeting they did not have the information
they now have from Mr. Majewski.
Mr. Fritchey moved, Mr. Newbon seconded and it was unanimously carried that while
the Park & Recreation Board supports the
are interpreting the letter of the Township engineer correctly that the proposal of the
Development process, the Park Board would not be in favor of making changes. If the
Park & Recreation Board is interpreting this incorrectly, they would like to be so advised.
Mr. McDonald asked what responsibility the Park & Recreation Board has to the public if
changes are made to a Plan they agreed to, and Mr. Gordon stated he feels it would
depend on the level of the changes. Mr. Caiola stated if there were substantial changes, it
would have to go back to the Planning Commission and that would involve a public
Mr. Caiola noted he is not sure he will be the Liaison for the Park & Recreation Board
next year and he wanted to let the Board know that he enjoyed working with the Board
and noted they are a very hard-working Board. Mr. Caiola was thanked by the Board
for all his efforts.
RECREATION DIRECTORS REPORT
Ms. Liney stated the capital improvement project of widening
the exit lane and constructing a concrete island at
Ms. Liney stated the
Ms. Liney stated all fall light fees and user fees totaling over $48,000 have been paid by the organizations for the fall season. Ms. Liney commended all the people involved for their cooperation in paying these fees on a timely basis.
Ms. Liney stated the Board of Supervisors has scheduled Wednesday, December 20 for adoption of the Township Operating Budget for 2007.
Ms. Liney stated the Township will be attending the annual Lower Makefield Seniors holiday luncheon this Friday. She stated the Seniors always have a great turnout for this
December 12, 2006 Park & Recreation Board page 9 of 9
event and this provides a good opportunity for the Township to recognize the Seniors volunteer efforts by presenting approximately 25 thank you gifts for service. She stated this is the kind of grass roots effort which continues to improve the community for everyone.
Ms. Liney thanked all the members of the Park & Recreation Board, the Supervisor liaison, and the volunteer organizations for their continued support and effort with the community this past year; and she stated she looks forward to another successful year in 2007.
Due to scheduling conflicts, it was agreed to hold the January meeting of the Park & Recreation Board on Thursday, January 18th at 7:30 p.m.
There being no further business, Mr. Newbon moved, Mr. McDonald seconded and it was unanimously carried to adjourn the meeting at 9:30 p.m.
David Fritchey, Chairman